Discussion:
How to check (in C) if a process (with
(too old to reply)
Nicolas Vazquez
2021-04-30 23:29:59 UTC
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Yall still here
Lew Pitcher
2021-05-01 14:56:47 UTC
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Post by Nicolas Vazquez
Yall still here
You /do/ realize that you replied to a thread last posted to over 24 years ago, right?
--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills, We Trust"
James K. Lowden
2021-05-03 19:28:53 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 1 May 2021 14:56:47 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Nicolas Vazquez
Yall still here
You /do/ realize that you replied to a thread last posted to over 24 years ago, right?
I'm sure I read somewhere it's considered best practice to reply to all
email threads before time_t rolls over.

--jkl
Boris Dorestand
2021-05-04 20:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Nicolas Vazquez
Yall still here
You /do/ realize that you replied to a thread last posted to over 24 years ago, right?
How did you know? Did you look the original message in the references
header? How do you do that so easily? I'd love to the same. Thanks!
Lew Pitcher
2021-05-04 21:07:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Nicolas Vazquez
Yall still here
You /do/ realize that you replied to a thread last posted to over 24 years ago, right?
How did you know? Did you look the original message in the references
header? How do you do that so easily? I'd love to the same. Thanks!
I looked it up in google's C.U.P mirror

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.unix.programmer/c/xN3-YrzTeLk/m/e-wNQjBOzsEJ
--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills, We Trust"
James Kuyper
2021-05-05 03:49:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Nicolas Vazquez
Yall still here
You /do/ realize that you replied to a thread last posted to over 24 years ago, right?
How did you know? Did you look the original message in the references
header? How do you do that so easily? I'd love to the same. Thanks!
I looked it up in google's C.U.P mirror
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.unix.programmer/c/xN3-YrzTeLk/m/e-wNQjBOzsEJ
To Boris:
Enjoy this while you can. When Deja News was maintaining the archives,
they have a very powerful and reasonably fast search engine. When Google
took over the archive, virtually every change they've made has had the
effect of making the archives less useful by reason of being harder to
search. I suspect the end is nigh - pretty soon Google is going to admit
that they have no interest in continuing to maintain and provide access
to those archives. I wouldn't be surprised if they simply delete them
when the time comes, rather than letting someone else take over
responsibility.
Boris Dorestand
2021-05-07 20:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Kuyper
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Nicolas Vazquez
Yall still here
You /do/ realize that you replied to a thread last posted to over 24
years ago, right?
How did you know? Did you look the original message in the references
header? How do you do that so easily? I'd love to the same. Thanks!
I looked it up in google's C.U.P mirror
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.unix.programmer/c/xN3-YrzTeLk/m/e-wNQjBOzsEJ
Enjoy this while you can. When Deja News was maintaining the archives,
they have a very powerful and reasonably fast search engine. When Google
took over the archive, virtually every change they've made has had the
effect of making the archives less useful by reason of being harder to
search. I suspect the end is nigh - pretty soon Google is going to admit
that they have no interest in continuing to maintain and provide access
to those archives. I wouldn't be surprised if they simply delete them
when the time comes, rather than letting someone else take over
responsibility.
This is very concerning. An organization such as archive.org --- see

https://archive.org/details/usenet

--- should have a complete archive of the USENET. Shouldn't it? But
it's not clear exactly what they have there. They seem to have various
small archives.

But if they have a superset (considering the union of everything they
have), someone could just join them all. With so many computers in the
world, why can't we lookup a USENET message by message-id on the web?
No profit from this?

The web system should provide the raw message and an API so that NNTP
clients can make use of it. (Users of the API would register and
respect usage limits, of course.)
Boris Dorestand
2021-05-07 20:02:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Nicolas Vazquez
Yall still here
You /do/ realize that you replied to a thread last posted to over 24 years ago, right?
How did you know? Did you look the original message in the references
header? How do you do that so easily? I'd love to the same. Thanks!
I looked it up in google's C.U.P mirror
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.unix.programmer/c/xN3-YrzTeLk/m/e-wNQjBOzsEJ
But how did you know that this was the URL? Did you have to search? I
wish such mirror would index it by message-id --- or perhaps (group,
message-id). It doesn't seem to be like that.

The message included

In-Reply-To: <***@softart.com>#1/1>

The references were

<5amorl$***@rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com>
<***@softart.com>#1/1>

My desire is to look it up from my news reader.
Lew Pitcher
2021-05-07 20:36:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Nicolas Vazquez
Yall still here
You /do/ realize that you replied to a thread last posted to over 24
years ago, right?
How did you know? Did you look the original message in the references
header? How do you do that so easily? I'd love to the same. Thanks!
I looked it up in google's C.U.P mirror
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.unix.programmer/c/xN3-YrzTeLk/m/e-wNQjBOzsEJ
But how did you know that this was the URL? Did you have to search? I
wish such mirror would index it by message-id --- or perhaps (group,
message-id). It doesn't seem to be like that.
The message included
The references were
My desire is to look it up from my news reader.
Depending on your news provider, that may not be possible at all.

Best case, you can use the
Message-ID:
of the message you are looking for, or the
In-Reply-To:
or
References:
that lead to it.

If your news provider keeps an archive, then your news reader /might/
be able search that archive. But, FWIW, most news providers don't keep
archives of past articles, preferring to drop articles from their store
after a reasonable (and often short) period of time.

HTH
--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills, We Trust"
Boris Dorestand
2021-05-08 12:36:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Nicolas Vazquez
Yall still here
You /do/ realize that you replied to a thread last posted to over 24
years ago, right?
How did you know? Did you look the original message in the references
header? How do you do that so easily? I'd love to the same. Thanks!
I looked it up in google's C.U.P mirror
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.unix.programmer/c/xN3-YrzTeLk/m/e-wNQjBOzsEJ
But how did you know that this was the URL? Did you have to search? I
wish such mirror would index it by message-id --- or perhaps (group,
message-id). It doesn't seem to be like that.
The message included
The references were
My desire is to look it up from my news reader.
Depending on your news provider, that may not be possible at all.
Best case, you can use the
of the message you are looking for, or the
or
that lead to it.
If your news provider keeps an archive, then your news reader /might/
be able search that archive. But, FWIW, most news providers don't keep
archives of past articles, preferring to drop articles from their store
after a reasonable (and often short) period of time.
I meant to look it up on an HTTP server, say, not from an NNTP server or
my NNTP server. For instance, why doesn't Google Groups lets us do that
right now since it probably has it all archived and available on the
web?
James Kuyper
2021-05-08 17:14:39 UTC
Permalink
On 5/8/21 8:36 AM, Boris Dorestand wrote:
...
Post by Boris Dorestand
I meant to look it up on an HTTP server, say, not from an NNTP server or
my NNTP server. For instance, why doesn't Google Groups lets us do that
right now since it probably has it all archived and available on the
web?
They used to offer such a feature, and as far as I can tell, have
dropped it. Why? I have no idea - nothing seems particularly sane about
the way Google Groups has been managed. The simplest explanation is that
Google has no particular interest in providing useful access to their
usenet archives, but if that's the case, why do they bother providing
any access to them at all? Why do they regularly modify their interface
to make it less useful? Surely just maintaining their existing software
would have been easier?
Boris Dorestand
2021-05-10 18:38:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Kuyper
...
Post by Boris Dorestand
I meant to look it up on an HTTP server, say, not from an NNTP server or
my NNTP server. For instance, why doesn't Google Groups lets us do that
right now since it probably has it all archived and available on the
web?
They used to offer such a feature, and as far as I can tell, have
dropped it. Why? I have no idea - nothing seems particularly sane about
the way Google Groups has been managed. The simplest explanation is that
Google has no particular interest in providing useful access to their
usenet archives, but if that's the case, why do they bother providing
any access to them at all? Why do they regularly modify their interface
to make it less useful? Surely just maintaining their existing software
would have been easier?
All good questions. They should just provide us with a series of
packages of all the archive and let us handle it some other way. I
wonder what is the size it of all.
James Kuyper
2021-05-10 19:51:02 UTC
Permalink
...
Post by James Kuyper
the way Google Groups has been managed. The simplest explanation is that
Google has no particular interest in providing useful access to their
usenet archives, but if that's the case, why do they bother providing
any access to them at all? Why do they regularly modify their interface
to make it less useful? Surely just maintaining their existing software
would have been easier?
All good questions. They should just provide us with a series of
packages of all the archive and let us handle it some other way. I
wonder what is the size it of all.
See <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#Usenet_traffic_changes>. Unfortunately, those numbers include the binaries newsgroups, which would require enormously more space to archive than the purely text messages, which is why most places don't even consider archiving the binaries. Still, I suspect that even the text archives are too big for most users to even consider downloading them.
Boris Dorestand
2021-08-15 13:38:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Kuyper
...
Post by James Kuyper
the way Google Groups has been managed. The simplest explanation is that
Google has no particular interest in providing useful access to their
usenet archives, but if that's the case, why do they bother providing
any access to them at all? Why do they regularly modify their interface
to make it less useful? Surely just maintaining their existing software
would have been easier?
All good questions. They should just provide us with a series of
packages of all the archive and let us handle it some other way. I
wonder what is the size it of all.
See
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#Usenet_traffic_changes>. Unfortunately,
those numbers include the binaries newsgroups, which would require
enormously more space to archive than the purely text messages, which
is why most places don't even consider archiving the binaries. Still,
I suspect that even the text archives are too big for most users to
even consider downloading them.
Very interesting. Thank you.

James Kuyper
2021-05-07 21:33:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Nicolas Vazquez
Yall still here
You /do/ realize that you replied to a thread last posted to over 24
years ago, right?
How did you know? Did you look the original message in the references
The first message I saw in my newsreader recently had a title of "Re:
How to check (in C) if a process (with". The "Re:" indicates that it was
a response to some earlier message, so I knew there should be earlier
messages. I could have also figured it out by looking at the message
headers, but just noticing the "Re:" is much simpler.
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Boris Dorestand
header? How do you do that so easily? I'd love to the same. Thanks!
I looked it up in google's C.U.P mirror
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.unix.programmer/c/xN3-YrzTeLk/m/e-wNQjBOzsEJ
But how did you know that this was the URL? Did you have to search? I
Since I knew it was posted to comp.unix.programmer, I went to

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.unix.programmer

I then searched manually through the threads to find the title of this
thread. Since the most recent message on that thread was posted quite
recently, it was near the top. However, if you're interested in an older
message, there's a box near the top of the screen which says "Search
conversations within comp.unix.prog...". You can just type a simple
search string in that box, or you can fill out a slightly more
sophisticated search form by clicking the downward-pointing triangle on
the right hand side of that search box.
If you want to search all groups, click on the downward-pointing
triangle to the left of the search box.

They used to have an option of searching for a particular message using
its usenet message ID, but that's one of the many useful features that
they have slowly been removing over the years. Even as recently as a
year ago, Google Groups' search capabilities were significantly more
sophisticated than they are today (while being positively primitive
compared to what you could do with Deja News).
Boris Dorestand
2021-05-08 12:43:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Kuyper
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Nicolas Vazquez
Yall still here
You /do/ realize that you replied to a thread last posted to over 24
years ago, right?
How did you know? Did you look the original message in the references
How to check (in C) if a process (with". The "Re:" indicates that it was
a response to some earlier message, so I knew there should be earlier
messages. I could have also figured it out by looking at the message
headers, but just noticing the "Re:" is much simpler.
Post by Boris Dorestand
Post by Lew Pitcher
Post by Boris Dorestand
header? How do you do that so easily? I'd love to the same. Thanks!
I looked it up in google's C.U.P mirror
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.unix.programmer/c/xN3-YrzTeLk/m/e-wNQjBOzsEJ
But how did you know that this was the URL? Did you have to search? I
Since I knew it was posted to comp.unix.programmer, I went to
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.unix.programmer
I then searched manually through the threads to find the title of this
thread. Since the most recent message on that thread was posted quite
recently, it was near the top. However, if you're interested in an older
message, there's a box near the top of the screen which says "Search
conversations within comp.unix.prog...". You can just type a simple
search string in that box, or you can fill out a slightly more
sophisticated search form by clicking the downward-pointing triangle on
the right hand side of that search box.
If you want to search all groups, click on the downward-pointing
triangle to the left of the search box.
Thank you. But I was hoping we could just look it up as in

curl http://somewhere.example.com/comp.unix.programmer/message-id-xyz

or even better

curl http://somewhere.example.com/message-id-xyz.

It's a pity no archive lets us do that.
Post by James Kuyper
They used to have an option of searching for a particular message using
its usenet message ID, but that's one of the many useful features that
they have slowly been removing over the years. Even as recently as a
year ago, Google Groups' search capabilities were significantly more
sophisticated than they are today (while being positively primitive
compared to what you could do with Deja News).
It's a shame.

I think it's pretty simple. Index it properly and let it be fetched
through an HTTP API protected by keys that limit usage. Then let people
build their software on it. If it gets expensive, handle it to some
organization such as archive.org or create a non-profit for it. A lot
of people would devote themselves to keep this up.
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