systemd (Subject line fixed as a public service)

[Kenny McCormack]

My God, how did we all manage running services before systemd came along?

Badly, with services that have crashed and nobody noticed for weeks.

Some teams have been working on better replacement for SysV init, but
without the industrial strength of Red Hat they could only stay niche.


--

[M***@DastardlyHQ.org]

On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 09:56:25 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Kenny McCormack

My God, how did we all manage running services before systemd came along?

Badly, with services that have crashed and nobody noticed for weeks.

Important services don't go unnoticed for weeks.

Post by Kenny McCormack
Some teams have been working on better replacement for SysV init, but
without the industrial strength of Red Hat they could only stay niche.

Oh rubbish. Community traction is usually whats required for something to
be accepted. Only in the last 15 years or so did corps start to force their
ideas into linux. Red Hat was notorious for having its own kernels mods
back in the day. Maybe it still does.

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Post by M***@DastardlyHQ.org
Only in the last 15 years or so did corps start to force
their ideas into linux.

Nobody can “force” their ideas into Open Source. Ideas only get adopted
for their intrinsic merit, not because of any big-budget marketing
campaign to tell everyone how wonderful it is.

What would be the business model for such a marketing campaign, anyway?

[Nicolas George]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Nobody can “force” their ideas into Open Source.

Of course they can. Have enough hired developers contribute to the project,
bully the project leader into resigning in favor of a democracy that does
not give more voice to the people to know the project inside-out and intend
to be there for the long run, and bam, you can do whatever you want with the
project.

I am not making this up, I am summarizing what has been happening in a major
Libre Software project over the last fifteen years.

They took that long because they tried to go too fast and were forced into a
fork they eventually drove into the ground. But they have been back.

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Post by Nicolas George

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Nobody can “force” their ideas into Open Source.

Of course they can. Have enough hired developers contribute to the
project, bully the project leader into resigning ...

Oracle tried that sort of thing, with the Open Source projects it
inherited from Sun. Remember what happened? The contributors left
wholesale to set up a fork. And the forks ended up doing better than the
originals.

So no, it pays not to antagonize the Open Source community. They have long
memories.

[Nicolas George]

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Oracle tried that sort of thing, with the Open Source projects it
inherited from Sun. Remember what happened? The contributors left
wholesale to set up a fork. And the forks ended up doing better than the
originals.
So no, it pays not to antagonize the Open Source community. They have long
memories.

Your example proves that it does not always work.

Your example does not prove that it never works.

We have an example proving that its it working at least once.

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Post by Nicolas George

Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Oracle tried that sort of thing, with the Open Source projects it
inherited from Sun. Remember what happened? The contributors left
wholesale to set up a fork. And the forks ended up doing better than
the originals.
So no, it pays not to antagonize the Open Source community. They have
long memories.

Your example proves that it does not always work.
Your example does not prove that it never works.
We have an example proving that its it working at least once.

No, we have no such example. We have merely your claims about Red Hat
motives, which are not borne out by any independent evidence.

For one example, the discussions within Debian over adoption of systemd
are a matter of public record. For another, the decision by Mark
Shuttleworth to abandon upstart in Ubuntu and adopt systemd is also a
matter of public record. Go and see if you can find any “pressure” that
Red Hat might have exerted on either of them; you won’t.

[Nicolas George]

Post by Kenny McCormack
Badly, with services that have crashed and nobody noticed for weeks.
Some teams have been working on better replacement for SysV init, but
without the industrial strength of Red Hat they could only stay niche.

I wrote that, not you, liar.

[Kenny McCormack]

Post by Nicolas George

Post by Kenny McCormack
Badly, with services that have crashed and nobody noticed for weeks.
Some teams have been working on better replacement for SysV init, but
without the industrial strength of Red Hat they could only stay niche.

I wrote that, not you, liar.

It is not clear whom you are calling a "liar".

My post made it clear that you wrote the content and I was only correcting
your inadvertent failure to fix the Subject line.

One of the knuckleheads (LDO or Muddle - can't remember which) messed up
the attribution line (failed to fix it - lot of that going around).

[Nicolas George]

Post by Kenny McCormack
It is not clear whom you are calling a "liar".

You, for putting “From:” yourself in front of my words.

Post by Kenny McCormack
My post made it clear that you wrote the content

Hiding it in the headers that nobody reads is not “clear”. That's your
second lie.

Post by Kenny McCormack
and I was only correcting
your inadvertent failure to fix the Subject line.

It is not your place to do that for other people. Next time you feel like
it, go solve a jigsaw puzzle in the middle of a highway instead.

And if you are too incompetent to do it without breaking threads, do not do
it at all.